Why let dough rise twice?

In regards to one rise or 2 rises this is my opinion based on personal experimentation: A- if you want to make French baguette, knead once by hand or in a mixer, allow the dough to rest for half hour, fold it in thirds and then shape it into baguettes and place each in the cooking tray. Allow to rise and double in size then bake in the oven. This will give you a large gaping holes which is a holemark for real authentic French baguettes: the lighter the better. B- if you want to make bread, for example, French bread or Italian bread that you are going to slice it and make sandwiches from, then you don't want to have large gaping holes so you would need to let it rise twice. This will also create crumb that is not very elastic and easier to chew. For that you don't need to knead the dough because the second rise will allow the gluten to develop.

So in summary, one rise is enough if you want a large gaping holes and you would need to knead the dough first in order to develop the gluten which is important to support the risen dough. If you want small holes and easy to chew crumb you would need 2 rises and you don't need to knead.

Any comments are welcome.

I have been baking homemade bread since my friend gave me a kitchen aid in November of last year, and I tried the experiment of proofing 1/2 the dough once and the other 1/2 twice. My experience was that the loaf that was proofed twice did, indeed, have a finer texture, but it was not noticeable enough for me to ever proof twice again!

I make challah -- A LOT! I found that letting it rise twice killed the nice puffy cord appearance that is the trademark of this bread. I mean, it tasted fine but it lost its distinct bursting at the seams look, making it less inviting. So, I started going with one rise, punch down and braid, then straight in the oven. The fact is bread keeps rising a bit even in the oven, until it is fully baked. So, by letting that last rise action happen during baking instead of before, the loaf benefits from very distinct and appealing ropes. I do not believe any of the people on this thread who say they knead and rise three times. Dough can be overworked and turn into a rock. Not just pie dough, either.

Here's a thought. I found this forum by asking that very question and then something popped into my head. The long the bread is allowed to rise (as in number of times) the more yeast is produced. The punch down does remove the air pockets so the bread isn't full of gaping holes.

Does this make sense?

I think letting the dough rise twice is based on the days of using only active dry yeast. With the instant yeast, it is just not necessary. I find that the second rise is never as high or as symmetrical, so I just quit doing it. I notice no difference in taste or texture at all. My bread does not have gaping holes unless I plan it that way.

I do use my bread machine for the kneading because I have tendonitis in my hands. (Maybe if you knead by hand, you need the second rise. I wouldn't know since I can't do that any more.) After the machine kneads the dough but before rising, I take out the dough and put it in a pan to rise over my smooth cooktop stove. I turn the heat on the stove up to 185° and cover the pan with the top of my cake storage container. The gentle heat from the bottom helps it to rise faster.

I just don't have the time or patience to spend all day making bread. I do like to bake it in the oven instead of the bread machine as the loaf is a much better shape, not so tall. Bread machines also start baking on a time schedule instead of when the dough is properly proofed, which can result in disaster.

I will, as usual, suggest experimentation.

At times, I make bread, knead it, form it, drop in in a pan, let it rise once, and bake it. It's expedient. It's bread, and usually quite decent bread at that.

Other times I rise and punch down/re-knead a bit 1, 2 or even 3 times.

Other days I make a wet sloppy mess I can't really knead and pour/scape it into the pan.

It's all bread. Some of it is not as different as you might expect; some is.

For a "more controlled than is often the case" experiment, make dough to support 2-3 loaves and:

• put one in the pan directly
• rise the remainder, punch down (if you made enough for 3, divide again) and put in pan
• give the third another rise before panning it.

Somewhat inefficient of time and oven fuel but it lets you see what differences there are (and are not) starting from exactly the same dough.

I have read a lot of theories on this and only one makes sense to me. You knead your dough again to redistribute the yeast in the bread Commercial yeast is very concentrated, and if you don't allow for a second rise, you will have areas with very little yeast development and areas with high concentration of yeast (hence the air bubbles)

I should note that in Spain, the professional bakers learn to bake with what is called the "masa madre", which is an aged, well fermented bread dough. Since the yeast in this form can be knead evenly into the dough during the original kneading process, a second rise is not necessary.

A lot of the reasons for the second rise is the texture. The reason for a long fermentation is to not only enhance the flavor but develop the gluten structure. There are recipes that do not do anything but let the dough ferment and the longer the better. I purchased a Bosch mixer and having this machine, the second rise the thing of the past for me. The developed gluten structure with a Bosch is amazing. I have been making bread in every imaginable way possible for over forty years. With no help mixing and kneading other than the muscle that one has in his or her biceps and forearms. I purchased Kitchen-aid mixer some thirty years ago and have been through three of them until I purchased a Bosch. I was grateful for the help the machine gave me. I always did the two proofing method and was satisfied I was getting the best product. Then the Bosch was the lasting decision breaker for me. I knead for 10 min with the machine and rolled the dough into loaves and let them rise. the bread is unbelievably supple and delicious. This is even after I freeze all my loaves before eating.
I guess what ever your process is, either by hand or machine do a thorough job on of kneading and developing the elasticity in the dough. If you have a Kitchen-aid knead for at least 10 min and continue the kneading process for 5 extra min after you take it from the bow and you will be able to skip the second knead. If this seems to much, do two raises.

One reason to do a second knead (and I'd do a real short, gentle one if required) is to redistribute the yeast a little, giving it fresh food to work on.

But I'm not sure I'd actually knead twice even if I wanted to do that--I'd lightly punch down and fold the bread in thirds and call it done.

As already said, the second rise does nice things for texture, and it also allows the yeast to grow longer, giving you more yeast flavor and converting more sugars from the flour giving you a nice flavor complexity. In my opinion, you can get the same effect by having a much longer (like overnight) cool rise in the first place.

Allowing dough to rise twice results in a finer gluten structure than allowing it to rise once. It results in a smaller crumb and prevents huge gaping airholes in your bread. The reason that you have to let it re-rise is that you just pushed all the air out with the kneading you did developing that gluten structure.

Leavened bread just seems to taste and bake much better with two or more knead & rise cycles.

The knead process layers and stretches out the gluten to make a smooth, consistent texture which will hold together when baked; it also traps the yeast gas (CO2) as fine bubbles in the dough.

After the last knead you should transfer the dough to the pre-warmed container you are going to cook it in/on and let it rise in that.

With doughs that are slightly more oily or wet than standard bread dough you can cheat at use a standard food processor with its horizontal chop blade to knead. Just put all the pre-warmed ingredients into the processor and let it rip until it forms a smooth ball. This is great for pizza dough (100% whole meal flour and lots of olive oil). You have to hang onto the machine though, because as the dough starts to ball, the machine will walk off the bench!