Did Palpatine intentionally lose to Mace Windu?

If you ask Palpatine, he would say that yes, it was all planned and this was made to make Anakin turn against the Jedi. This is typical from him, a seductive, narcissist and manipulative character who does all he can to look like he handle the situation.

In reality, he probably had many plan, depending of every possible outcome he could foresee. But we already know he is not omniscient since some of his plans didn't work as expected. The first Death Star was destroyed and his knowledge of the future failed to predict Luke's resistance to the dark side and his flowing fall (literally and figuratively).

I also don't think he made anything that could put himself in danger if he could avoid it. After all, didn't he choose to murder his Master in his sleep rather than confront him directly? Mace Windu's Vaapad mastery took him by surprise and the outcome was less than certain for him. But he is also adaptive, and he saw an great opportunity with Anakin's appearance. He pulled the string he had in hand at the time to get away with it.

As for his following encounter with Yoda, he did not truly beat him since he didn't kill him. He didn't have to; Yoda's objective was to stop (and kill) him, but Palpatine just had to survive the encounter to be untouchable afterwards. He attempted to flee rather than fight, and only confronted Yoda when he appeared to have no other choice in the matter.

Mace Windu, according to EU sources, is the foremost Jedi in the field of lightsaber combat. He is a practitioner of Vaapad (Form VII), which edges dangerously against the Dark Side in its use of controlled, focused dark energies; it requires a very dualist view of the Force, enabling the practitioner to use the Dark Side against itself without falling prey to its temptations. It is a very powerful discipline and would be a serious threat to any Sith, especially one-on-one.

As such, I don't think Palpatine, with his foresight, ever planned to win a fair fight with Windu. Instead, his plan, set in motion weeks and months ago with his mentoring of Anakin and his hints of being able to prevent Padme's death, involved Anakin from the beginning. Anakin, torn with concern over Padme, would act to keep Palpatine alive at any cost, in the hopes of learning how to save Padme. This emotion, coupled with the easy-to-believe (in fact, true) posit that Windu's fight with Palpatine was a coup attempt, sends Anakin tumbling down the Dark Path headfirst.

This is Sidious's MO from the moment we first see him; he is a pragmatist and a very effective schemer, able to predict and very subtly affect the flow of events to place himself at an advantage no matter what the actual outcome appears to be from an external viewpoint. The ultimate politician.

Let me start by saying I think that Mace initially underestimated Palpatine's power. However, Mace clearly surprised Darth Sidious with the power of his Vaapad. Mace was a far better at lightsaber combat then he was 13 years before when he lost to Count Dooku. Sure Dooku had become more powerful, but Windu's fighting capabilities had grown tremendously, and his style was especially good against the dark side which gave him the advantage in this lightsaber duel.

So Mace and three other Jedi arrive to confront Palpatine. Palpatine attacks, catching Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar by surprise. Kit Fisto had time to prepare a defense. I'd say Fisto may be on the level of Eeth Koth or Ki-adi Mundi, but not Plo Koon, Shaak Ti or Luminara; who were all better at lightsaber combat. Jedi like Cin Drallig, Depa Billaba, and Quinlan Vos were equal to or greater than Obi Wan, who was ahead of Plo Koon in skill. Mace is much stronger than Obi at this time, and Mace would beat Dooku now in a fight. A close fight, but he'd win.

When Anakin arrived, Palpatine played the weak victim, and then used Anakin's fear to manipulate him. Some people say that Palpatine was just toying with Windu, waiting for Anakin to show, but this is a bit farfetched. I don't think Palpatine knew that Anakin would show for sure. Maybe Anakin would sense he was in trouble? Still, It would have been quite a gamble. Anyways, I don't think he threw the fight. I think he was really trying to kill Windu. He had already killed the other Jedi, why stop there? Was Palpatine betting it all on Anakin killing Mace Windu in order to turn him to the dark side? I don't think so.

So did Mace die? Yes, most likely. Is there a chance that he somehow survived? Sure, I guess. Look at what they did with Maul =/ not saying I agree with him being brought back. Though, the force lightning probably just about killed him. This is purely speculation, but maybe he survived and escaped into hiding. Maybe he survived the encounter and joined a pocket of resistance on some remote planet, as others Jedi have, and we just haven't heard of his exploits yet. How would this be possible? Well the initial blow of order 66, otherwise known as the great Jedi purge, took the lives of nearly ten thousand Jedi. Only around 105 are said to have survived, including 25 or so former members of the Jedi order that weren't outright targeted. It is thought that as many as 200 Jedi in total survived the great purge. Though over the years to come, most of these Jedi would be hunted down and killed. How many lived to see Luke rebuild the council? We don't know the exact number. Much to learn, we still have.

I'm not sure that you watched the movie. He may have done it intentionally to draw Anakin to the Dark Side, but I doubt that. However, I don't believe that. Mace Windu is an incredibly powerful Jedi, a member of the Jedi High Council, and one of the greatest swordsmen in the history of the Order. He is a master of Vaapad, possibly the only true master of the form, because he is the only one to have mastered it and yet has not fallen to the Dark Side. It is possibly, as I said, for Sidious to throw the fight, as the two Force users are quite evenly matched, but if Sidious was holding back during the fight, then he could have defeated the whole entire Jedi Order single-handedly. As it is, he took down three members of the Jedi High Council in a matter of seconds. My opinion is that Palpatine did not throw his fight with Mace Windu.

What was planned? The entire plot of Revenge of the Sith was Sidious' orchestrated plan.

First, plan his own capture so that he can manipulate Anakin into breaking the Jedi code by killing Dooku. partly because Dooku is getting too powerful, and partly because Anakin is ready.

Next, take a big step in louring Anakin to his side by telling him about the Dark side's abilities to save life.

Make his move when Yoda and Obiwan are off the planet. Sidious knows that there are three Jedi that he can not defeat: Mace, Yoda and Anakin. (Based on the movie, and the look on his face when Dooku was fighting Anakin and Obiwan, he probably didn't think he could defeat Dooku either.) But he knew that if he battled Yoda and Windu together, he would die. (Sidoious had repeatedly put Yoda and Windu in situations during the Clone Wars where he knew they would be killed, and they never were.) And he also knew that he couldn't manipulate Anakin if Obiwan was there.

Next, tell Anakin who he is so that he informs Windu, and has time to think about losing Padmé.

If Sidious wasn't sure before the battle with Windu started, he realized fairly soon that he could not defeat him. At that point all that Sidious could do was drag it out until Anakin arrived - which he knew he would.

But during the battle with Windu, it was obvious that Sidious knew that he was going to lose. Everything that happened after Anakin arrived was an act on Sidious' part, but there was no point in acting when it was just himself and Windu. Just before Anakin arrived it was obvious that Sidious thought he would be dead before Anakin arrived. You could tell that he thought all his planning hadn't worked, because he thought he was going to die. The lightning show was purely for Anakin's benefit, because Sidious knew he couldn't defeat an armed Windu.

Sidious really isn't very effective as a planner. He orchestrated Geonosis to get rid of the Jedi, and it failed. Probably didn't have high hopes for that one, because the next one (the Clone War) was ready to go. And that one didn't work either. Then he went to Order 66, and that one brought on his own death.

Even his plan to have Anakin as his apprentice failed, because before it can happen Vader is severely crippled.

Sidious is a poor manipulator, and never has the ability to foresee unintended consequences. This may be how the midiclorians limit Dark side manipulators of their powers.

And as far as "how could Sidious lose to Windu, but defeat Yoda?" First, Windu was Yoda's equal with a light saber, but Yoda was much stronger with the Force as demonstrated by the fact that he was the only one that could absorb lightning with his bare hand and even reflect it back. And with his battle with Sidious, he was never close to losing, other than when he initially let his guard down - but even then Sidious was still afraid of him. But there was a point in the fight when Yoda knew he could kill Sideous when he was absorbing the lightning, but realized to do so he would have to violate the code. But this is one of the biggest plot holes in this story. Everyone knew, especially Dooku, that it would be terrifying if Yoda ever went Dark, because he would be able to destroy someone with a thought. At one point Dooku was literally terrified of the thought of this. But even without going Dark, or violating the code, he probably could have destroyed Sidious just by using the force.

This was the difference between Windu and Yoda; Windu needed vaapad if things became serious, and Yoda never tried to master it because he didn't need it.

Sidious is THE best at light saber duels. Ian (the actor who plays Palpatine) said that he was told that Palpatine could wield a lightsaber 500 (I'm not exaggerating he actually said 500) times better than any other duelist.It is revealed that Palpatine uses two techniques called force rage, and force speed. This makes him a whiz in battle. Also, according to Wookieepedia, Palpatine enjoys toying with his victims, pretending that he is losing then mutilating his opponent, he is meant to be the epitome of evil after all. The fact that Palpatine says, "I cannot hold on any longer, help me!" then, a few seconds later, "UNLIMITED POWER!" suggests he was being facetious, at least with himself.

My personal opinion is that Mace and Sidious were at an impasse, like the book says. I believe that upon sensing Anakin's approach, Sidious sensed a win-win situation that involved appearing to be beaten. He obviously timed it perfectly and appeared helpless as Anakin shows up. Now Sidious had no real apprentice at this time which goes entirely against the rule of two, so he was either foolishly overconfident in Anakin or he was devilishly clever in another sense. I speculate that his backup plan to Anakin's betrayal was to have Windu, who fights on the edge of darkness with Vaapad, kill him and push him over the brink and into darkness. Mas Amedda already knew Palpatine was Sith and believed he would bring order to the galaxy so he would have likely implicated order 66 after he became chancellor. And Mace Windu on the dark side would have killed Anakin, no doubt in my mind.

Yes, the emperor threw the fight. He could sense Anakin's arrival and threw the fight ultimately setting up what looked to be a jedi assassination attempt.

This convinced Anakin the jedi were evil and he should join the emperor.

According to what I've read from the books, source books, role playing books, novels and other material, Palpatine did not throw the fight, he genuinely lost to Mace as it says that Mace "Gained the advantage" over Palpatine.

However, Mace was not the best swordsman ever, as the only two he ever lost to were Yoda and Dooku. Some thought he was the best, but Mace knew far better than to ever even think that he was even comparable to Yoda in terms of his force powers or lightsaber combat. Mace knew enough of Yoda to know that Yoda kept his true abilities very secret, as did Luke later on when he became a Jedi Master, then Grandmaster.

Even though Mace defeated Palpy where as Yoda did not, it doesn't mean he was more skilled.. for Yoda's size does give him some disadvantage in physical combat regardless of his skill levels, which is greater than any other Jedi.

Palpatine was simply not able to defeat Yoda or Mace, which is why he knew that he could NOT take them on together or he would have lost. Palpatine was trying everything he could in his battle against Yoda, and it says in the novel that he had to grudgingly admit that "Yoda's defense was perfect". It was Palpatine that gave up the lightsaber fight and began thrown senate pods at Yoda because he was exasperated in trying to break through Yoda's defenses.

So what some are saying here that Palpatine was hundreds of times better than any other Jedi simply is not true and doesn't fit with everything else I've read or seen. He was probably the most powerful sith lord ever and certainly one of the greatest lightsaber duelists ever, but he was not at the level of a literal archangel or such with his saber combat as some try to make him out to be.

Theory 1 - Palpatine intended on killing Mace Windu. He killed the others, why not him? Instead he was caught off guard by Windu's skill and power boost, then was shortly thereafter disarmed. Anakin arrived and Palpatine put on a show.

Theory 2 - Palpatine intended on killing Mace Windu, but underestimated Windu's capabilities and so the fight went on longer than expected. When he sensed Anakin's arrival, he allowed himself to be disarmed.

Theory 3 - Palpatine was toying with Mace the whole time and knew Anakin would show up.

So Palpatine puts himself in a situation where Anakin must act and act heinously in order to save Padme. And so, the killing of Mace Windu, presumably dead, begins Anakin's transition to the dark side.

The whole master plan theory is plausible, but I think this would require too much to fall into place. Like the timing of Anakins arrival for instance. The certainty of who Anakin would side with especially after their last confrontation where Palpatine admitted that he was the Sith lord.

I've read where people talk about how ridiculously powerful Sidious must be to cut through those Jedi like that. I even saw someone write that Kit Fisto was the third best Jedi Swordsman behind Yoda and Windu. No, Fisto is not that good. He is tier 3. How did Palpatine defeat those jedi so easily? He used force scream.

My vote goes to Theory #1, but Theory #2 also seems very possible.

Yes, Palpatine pretended to lose in order to turn Anakin to the dark side.

Early on in his fight with Windu, Palpatine actually had an obvious opportunity to kill Windu. Shortly after despatching the other 3 Jedi, Palpatine points his lightsaber directly at Windu's chest and Windu's arms are by his sides. Palpatine had time at this point to plunge his sabre into Windu's chest if he had wanted to...

Palpatine triggered the following events by telling Anakin who he really is, because Palpatine was sure that nobody could defeat him.

1. In the fight between Palpatine and Yoda, Palpatine had some doubts, but not before.

2. To have everything planned in detail, and lose in the end against Windu and others, doesn't seem very smart.

3. I'm sure that Palpatine also wanted to fight and kill Yoda, but this time he failed.

4. The clones didn't interfere in the fight even when the senate was full of troops. Palpatine didn't flee and didn't asked for help.

There are two possibilities. Either Palpatine toyed with Mace on purpose or Palpatine was caught off guard by how powerful Mace was. I vote he toyed with Mace.

Palpatine was able to rather nonchalantly engage and defeat 3 Jedi masters in about 5 seconds in a 1 on 4 situation. Contrary to what is said above, they WERE ready to fight. They had their light sabers drawn. They watched Palpatine draw his light saber. Are we to believe that Mace Windu is skilled enough to engage in battle 4 Jedi Masters and slay 3 of them in mere moments?

Let's say Mace was skilled enough to fight 4 Jedi Master's at once. Palpatine had as much contact with Mace as he had with Yoda. He knew exactly how powerful Yoda was and Palpatine only engaged Yoda because Yoda cornered him. He did not want to fight Yoda. Yet we are to believe that Palpatine sat around for Mace--someone nearly as powerful as Yoda--and 3 of his buddies to show up so he could fight them with the hopes that he could delay long enough for Anakin to show up and put his plan in motion?

Palpatine had sized up Mace already. He knew Mace was no threat to him. I think the only argument one might be able to make is that Palpatine couldn't out lightsaber duel Mace, but was in no ways ever threatened to be defeated by Mace. Too many things could have went wrong.

Yes Sidious feigned defeat sensing Anakin was near so he could use the opportunity to feed off the mistrust Mace had for Anni... Everyone talks about how aggressive and powerful Mace is as a duellist but if you watch the battle Sidious against four Jedi he kills two before they even make a move Sidious initiating the attack he kills the other after a couple of parries and Mace is on the defensive for most of the battle then Mace seems to come back a little and suddenly the emperor acts like a little girl... all to lure in Anakin