Role-playing Games Asked by Alex Dawson on December 29, 2021
I’ve come to RPGs from a Wargames background, mostly Warhammer and such.
In wargames it’s kind of necessary to powergame, when everyone else is also powergaming and will massacre your army if you don’t. The problem is that I’m so used to the mentality of wargaming that you play to win, that I end up doing so in RPGs without even meaning to. I’m now kinda desperate to break this habit.
How can I break my mental habit of playing to win when I sit down to enjoy a roleplaying game?
The way the tell the difference is not by looking at mechanics but rather what is the focus.
Wargames have specific scenarios that you are dealing with. That the scenario have a defined end either in time or victory conditions. More sophisticated wargames will have a campaign that will generate scenario to play out. The result of which influences the direction of the campaign. But even then the campaign generally has a point at which victory is declared.
Roleplaying in contrast resolves around the experience of playing a character in an imagined setting. A virtual reality or holodeck done with pen, paper, dice, and imagination. The imagined setting and the character are adjudicated by a human referee. The rules may appear similar to a wargame but in a tabletop RPGs they are a tool used by the referee and player to decide the outcome of specific actions rather than the point of the game itself.
The example I typically use is SPI's Freedom in the Galaxy vs Traveller
Both games feature individual characters, have options for fighting out combat with units, and managing military campaigns.
The crucial difference is that the SPI games revolve around specific scenarios. Freedom of the Galaxy is about presented as a game where a Rebel Player attempts to liberate the Galaxy from the Empire players. Traveller in contrast is about creating a fictional science fiction setting for players to adventure in. That setting could feature the player as rebels liberating the galaxy from an empire. Rather than focusing victory conditions, it is focused on the experience of being there as rebels trying to liberate the galaxy.
Another example is SPI's War of the Ring versus ICE's Middle Earth Roleplaying. Both games have a similar range of mechanics (characters, combats, battles, etc). But because of their focus War of the Rings is a wargame while Middle Earth Roleplaying is a tabletop RPG.
Because of this difference, the key point to get across to wargamers trying RPGs for the first time is the idea is figure out what interesting for you to experience. Unlike a wargame scenario where you need to be efficient as possible to achieve victory, the players need to think of what most interesting to try.
It may sound simplistic but I started playing wargames and RPGs in the 70s. The most likely issue, if one occurs, is the wargamer player trying to "win". Once I explain the above and get them to understand it. They tend to relax and get more into the spirit of being inside of a setting as that character. Players will still try to make the most of the rules but because of all the possibilities that could occur it becomes a more natural optimization rather than a laser like focus on specific objectives.
Answered by RS Conley on December 29, 2021
Goals vs. Win Conditions
Most RPGs have a goal in play, but not a win condition (a few do, though). Consider the difference between a game about Greek warriors and making a story about their struggles vs. a game about Greek warriors played for tactical success. Figuring out what the Goal of the game is, tells you what good play for the game will be like.
The biggest hurdle, not just for wargamers, but everyone, is that many of the game rules are designed (...or, in some cases...un-designed) to potentially fulfill different roles in this way, so you may need some discussion up front to be clear on exactly what good play looks like for this particular game group.
Clarity on Game State
One of my friends who is a big wargamer pointed out that key point of play in that hobby is clarity on "the game state" - where every character stands, what the conditions are, etc. Clarity is necessary to make better decisions.
RPGs on the other hand... are often more fluid. The reality is that much of what happens in an RPG is because the group consents to that being true. This makes it more tricky to handle - a good game has a clear focus on goals so everyone knows what parts demand clarity vs. what parts are not that important. If you're playing a game about soap opera style drama, the important things are what everyone's relationships are to each other, and who's lying to whom, etc. but not what they're carrying or how strong they are. Spending too much time focusing on things that aren't relevant to the game disrupts play.
Genre Expectations Matter
RPGs often give you the option to do many things, but good play is often bounded by expectations within a given genre. For example, if you're playing a game about Golden Age Superheroes and you start destroying buildings full of innocent people just to kill the bad guy - that's bad play.
It's worth noting that some expectations are supposed to never be violated, and some are to be stepped over, but only as a Big Deal (TM) - and some are not even in play at all. Again, a good understanding of what the game text advises and a discussion among the group helps a lot.
Optimize/no don't optimize
Many RPGs suffer from a problem of having strong optimization rules built in, but then the advice around the game is to not use it. This is generally a bad game design set up, but it does make up a lot of games trying to cater to two different crowds. Talking to your group and the GM to figure out what they're looking for is key, but it's also worth noting that several games with this problem also punish poor choices severely - a character that's too far below the expected curve will die quickly, or be a 3rd rate character the whole campaign - as you are often locked into particular builds early on.
I don't really have a simple answer to that, as it's both common and endemic to many designs and often groups are terrible at really getting into how far the expectation is to go one way or another with it.
Answered by user9935 on December 29, 2021
I too come from a wargaming background before I discovered P&P RPG, so I've been through this as well. A few pointers.
The effects of death. If you lose a wargame you shrug, pack up and have your army ready for your next game. In roleplaying this is not the case: if your character dies and is not raised from the dead, he's dead. This means that you can't play that character again (unless you're being passive-agressive with the DM and make Larry the Fighter the successor to Barry the Fighter, but I advice against this) and have to make a new one. This will eventually happen, so be prepared for this both mentally and with a new character at the ready (though it is smart to keep your stack of sheets with backup characters out of the DM's sight, many do not take kindly to the implication)
It's not all about you. Sure, your character may be a badass, but there's an entire party of badasses. Know when you can shine and when you should not: let them do their thing and they will (hopefully) let you do yours.
I hope this is at least some help to you, and if you have more questions I'd love to hear them.
Answered by Thomas Jacobs on December 29, 2021
I would say that it's a very hard question because there are many ways to play RPG. From my experience, there are also various ways to play wargames, I personally played Warhammer with friends and we tended to make balanced games, of battles with heavy history components, and we had a lot of fun, but as you say, some tend to powergame and it's kind of contagious for wargaming.
To move from wargaming to RPG, you should be aware about what kind of RPG you are moving to. Some group of players enjoy powergaming, focus on tactical combat and gaining wealth and experience, some other focus on interesting plot or roleplay... If you really manage to grasp what the game will be about, you have a good start (I'll assume you agree with that goal).
You should also notice that I talked about a group. You are playing with the other players, not against. This should include the Game Master, altogether, you are about to build a story where the group is "the heroes", and most group try to work together to build a story as epic/funny/frightening/mind-shattering (really depends on the game) as possible. Discuss with your group about what kind of game you are going to have. There are powergamers in RPG, but they are not half as annoying as players who plays against the DM (trying to show him he's wrong) or against the group (how to handle treachery and PvP should be heavily discussed before the beginning of a game, and should never be done just for your own fun).
Finally, keep in mind you are not playing a small scale skirmishing wargame (even if you use figurines), it's a very different kind of game, with very different goals. Be as open minded as you were when you started wargames, learn the new codes and enjoy yourself.
Answered by Dargor on December 29, 2021
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