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Is there credibility to the "take money from hedge funds" theory behind $GME?

Personal Finance & Money Asked on March 29, 2021

The current Wall Street Bets theory behind the $GME rally goes as following:

  1. Hedge funds have shorted Gamestop to 140% by re-borrowing the same shares multiple times (or some other equivalent mechanism)
  2. Some traders have noticed this being the case and started driving up the price of Gamestop shares
  3. Hedge funds are losing money over this because they have to pay more interest per stock and because they’re being pressured to return the borrowed stocks due to the high price
  4. At some point in the near future (weeks if not days) they’ll be forced to close their positions which would drive up the stock price to $1000+, thus creating a massive transfer of wealth to small time investors

Does the last point actually have credibility? Couldn’t short traders wait for many more months before closing their positions, giving the company plenty of time to collapse?

5 Answers

Hedge funds are losing money over this because they have to pay more interest per stock and because they're being pressured to return the borrowed stocks due to the high price.

The cost to carry a short position in GME has increased for two reasons:

  • The daily borrow rate for GME has increased in the past few weeks
  • The share price has increased

However, this is not an unbearable cost or loss. The primary reason for the large losses is share price moving against them. If you short at $20 and GME hits $350, you're down $330 if you can hang in there.

At some point in the near future (weeks if not days) they'll be forced to close their positions which would drive up the stock price to $1000+, thus creating a massive transfer of wealth to small time investors.

Several hedge funds have already closed their positions and taken their losses. Probably many traders as well.

Bear in mind that there are other factors in play as well. Any Redditor looking to cash in has to sell some or even all of his position. That drives price down. As price drops, that enables option market makers to sell shares as well (purchased to hedge their short calls). I would imagine that new short sellers are also coming in at higher prices as well.

The confluence of these drives price down, as seen today from maybe $485 to $112. And then the buying pressure resumes and it's back up to $240. While $1,000 is possible, I think that it's also possible that at some point, new hedge fund money comes in short and crushes those still playing the game. Not a prediction just saying that price volatility is not likely to be over any time soon.

Couldn't short traders wait for many more months before closing their positions, giving the company plenty of time to collapse?

The margin requirement is the primary determinant of being able to keep a short position open during a short squeeze.

Answered by Bob Baerker on March 29, 2021

Please please please ensure you understand the risk in trying to jump on a volatile bandwagon like this.

A statement like "At some point in the near future (weeks if not days) they'll be forced to close their positions which would drive up the stock price to $1000+, thus creating a massive transfer of wealth to small time investors", posted even after price dropped from $400+ to $200- today is a sign that you may have neglected to consider the actual risk taken on by assuming this is a 'sure thing'.

The whole GME situation smells to me like a lot of uninformed individuals putting more money on the line than they should be. I would also suggest that the driving force behind the price jumps are from individuals who stand to gain many Millions from the increases. Don't believe everything you read online...

Answered by Grade 'Eh' Bacon on March 29, 2021

Does the last point actually have credibility? Couldn't short traders wait for many more months before closing their positions, giving the company plenty of time to collapse?

Yes, because of either getting margin called or rather untenable positions (e.g., a >1G USD potential loss).

In the case you mention, WSB short squeezing $GME, investment management firm Melvin Capital seems to have lost a few billions as a result of their short GME positions. See Citadel, Point72 Back Melvin With $2.75 Billion After Losses.

Answered by Franck Dernoncourt on March 29, 2021

Does the last point actually have credibility? Couldn't short traders wait for many more months before closing their positions, giving the company plenty of time to collapse?

They can, if they have enough money (and can demonstrate it to the broker).

Let's say you sell a stock short at $10, but later it rises to $100. If the broker can see you have $100 available, then they'll be OK with you maintaining your position. But if you can't - they logically are going to do what is known as a "margin call" and demand you either close your position or add more money to your account.

Short selling is dangerous because there's no limit to how high the stock can go. If you buy a stock for $10, your maximum loss is $10. You can never get a margin call this way (assuming you don't leverage, which means borrowing money from the broker to buy the stock). But if you short sell the stock, you can lose $90 as in the example above, or even more if the price keeps rising.

GME stock has gone up by a huge amount, so it's not surprising that the original short sellers were forced to cover their positions.

Answered by Allure on March 29, 2021

This is the story WSB is telling:

There are two PS4s. Alice has one, Eve has one. Herbert knows that with the PS5 release, the price of a PS4 is going to fall from $300 to $100. So, Herbert borrowed Alice's gadget and sold it to Bob for $300. He planned to buy it back off Bob when the price fell and give it back to Alice. So far so good. Herbert got greedy, though, and then borrowed it back off Bob and sold it to Charlie.

Now, Eve looks at the situation and posts loudly on the internet "Herbert owes two PS4s. There only are two PS4s, and I have one. So Herbert has painted himself into a corner: he needs my PS4, and I can charge him whatever I want. Sure, he can have it. For 3 grand. No, 30 grand. I can literally make up numbers at this point."

It's a good story.


However, Herbert ignores her. He knows he's messed up, but he also knows she's wrong. He doesn't need her PS4 in particular. So, he goes to Charlie. "Hey mate, that PS4 I sold you, could I have it back? I'm really sorry, something's come up. I'll give you $600." Charlie says "sure". Then Herbert goes to Bob and says "Hey mate, here's that PS4 I borrowed. But actually, do you think I could buy it off you? I'll give you $600." And Bob says "sure". Then Herbert goes to Alice, and gives her the PS4 that he borrowed.

And Eve is left shaking her head in a disappointed sort of way.

What happened, at core, is that Eve thought Herbert owed two PS4s, and so the number of physical PS4s was some sort of hard limit on how he could fix things. Instead, he owed two PS4-transactions. He'd sold a PS4 twice, even though it was the same PS4 and wasn't really his to sell. So now he has to buy a PS4 twice to balance it, but it can be the same PS4 that he buys both times.

The most important lesson for us is, be careful when Eve says that we can buy her PS4 for the low low price of £1000 and Herbert is guaranteed to buy it off us for whatever we ask. We might wind up just giving Eve a grand for an outdated bit of tech and have nothing to do with it except put in in the cupboard.


There is of course some sense in which the story is true. Herbert does need to pay over the odds to fulfil his obligations. But he doesn't need to pay Eve. He needs to pay whoever will give him the best deal. If Eve and Charlie agreed that they won't sell for less than thirty grand, he'd have to pay one of them thirty grand. But that's illegal. And without a binding agreement, it's in Charlie's interest to be reasonable so that he gets the sale rather than Eve. So Charlie gets the sale, and Herbert doesn't have to blow £30,000 on a cupboard filler.

Answered by Josiah on March 29, 2021

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