Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair Asked by milo5b on August 24, 2021
Disclaimer: I am a novice, so I possibly have made many errors during the process.
I have a Mercedes-Benz A Class w168 (2001).
It has a problem that sometimes, when running low RPMs it shuts down (often while stationary – but it did happen low speed corners).
I have brought it to two different mechanics but they said it’s all fine and they can’t find the issue. So I have decided to learn about modern engines myself, and bought a OBDII device to read ECU values.
I have read engine errors and it turns out I have one P0100 (Mass Air Flow Sensor).
So I took it apart and cleaned it, cleared the error, and put it back.
Unfortunately I did not measure LTFT and STFT before that.
The problem still persists, so I am trying to understand better what’s going on. (although the error did not come up again yet).
All the data below has been collected with engine in closed loop.
I have noticed that the car has LTFT and STFT at ~0% when idle, but when I open the throttle (even moderately), LTFT goes straight to -20%, however STFT goes up, proportionally with RPMs (the more the throttle is open, the more STFT goes up), let’s say between 10% and 25%.
Both idle condition and open throttle condition, O2 sensor reports normal conditions.
When returning to idle from an open throttle condition, LTFT stays -20% and STFT get temporarely "stuck" at 10%, and in those condition 02 sensor reports lean condition, which it kind of makes sense.
The thing that I don’t understand is, how can LTFT be negative and STFT be positive so consistently? What am I missing?
Summary:
Idle: LTFT 0%, STFT 0%
Throttle: LTFT -20%, STFT 10-25%
Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT) should respond over time; in a process called 'Block Learn' by many manufacturers; to systemic changes in the operating conditions of the engine. For example, a change in fuel vendors, a change in regular operating altitude. Short term fuel trim will respond to rapid, transient changes in operation, such as gas pedal, hill grade and more.
The short story is that you need to multiply LTFT by 10 (or some manufacturer specific factor) and then add the STFT to get the final trim condition.
In my educated judgement, a change of 20 percentage points for Long Term just throttling up from idle is a symptom something is seriously awry.
Most of the other reported observations don't really support a the theory of a major problem so maybe there's just something wrong with the scanner interpretation of the percentage point readout.
Answered by Andyz Smith on August 24, 2021
LTFT and STFT were converging to a new value: conditions have changed, so STFT was not aligned with LTFT direction, and eventually all settled to approx 0%.
Answered by milo5b on August 24, 2021
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