English Language & Usage Asked on June 16, 2021
In Finland, there live 5.6 % Swedes (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fi.html). They have lived there for many generations, being standard Finnish citizens, just inheriting the Swedish language as their mother tongue.
Which of the following terms is better for them?
Of course you may describe them by some more complicated phrase. What I am looking for is just what should be the adjective and what should be the noun.
I expect that Americans might feel their citizenship as more important and hence use Finns as the noun, while Europeans might feel their mother tongue as more important and hence use Swedes as the noun, but I may be wrong?
The interesting (for me as a native Czech) thing is that in English the word nationality has two very different meanings (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationality):
a group of people who share the same history, traditions, and
language, and who usually live together in a particular countrythe fact or status of being a member or citizen of a particular
nation
In other languages, these notions are often expressed by two different words and, most of all, they are perceived as two very different things.
This problem cannot be removed from context and social/historical nuance
It can depend, among other things on whether people are immigrants, or whether they are descendants of a landowning class of foreigners e.g. the Anglo Irish. (I have never heard anyone talk about the Irish English.) However the Polish Germans could presumably either be Poles who happen to live in Germany, but could also be part of the residue of landowning Germans who remain east of the Oder-Neisse Line in modern-day Poland. Similarly the Sudeten Germans in the Czech Republic. Naming is governed largely by historical convention, I would say.
Do people say Irish Americans or the American Irish?
That too, seems to me as though it may depend on context. If, for example, I am giving a talk about hyphenated Americans, I would almost certainly say Irish Americans, African Americans, Italian Americans etc. But if I was speaking about, let's say, the Irish diaspora, I might talk about the American Irish, the Australian Irish, the UK Irish, the London Irish, the Liverpool Irish etc. (there are societies and sports teams named London Irish, London Scottish and London Welsh) So there is no certainty here.
I don't know much about the circumstances of the Swedish families who live in Finland. But no doubt these sorts of issues could affect the way they are described, within a Scandinavian context, which may be quite different to that of the Anglosphere.
My advice would be to look to local nomenclature, and to use that.
Correct answer by WS2 on June 16, 2021
Neither is very apt, I feel.
There is no accepted term in English for this group of people, only a rather varied array of proposed terminology, including:
(I have never seen Swedish Finns before. It sounds rather like the reverse, i.e., the Finnish minority in Sweden—although, to be fair, the parallel Swedo-Finnish is given as a possible attributive form in the Wikipedia article linked to above. I’ve never seen that in actual use, either, though.)
Of these, Fenno-Swedish and Finland Swedish are the only two terms with any currency used for the dialect of Swedish spoken by this group of speakers.
For the group themselves, however, you can basically take your pick. On English versions of [insert adjective of choice here] websites, I have most commonly seen Finland-Swede / Finland-Swedish and Fenno-Swede / Fenno-Swedish used, but this is purely anecdotal and from memory—I have no statistics whatsoever to back it up.
On a more personal level, Finland-Swede / Finland-Swedish gets my vote for being the direct translation of finlandssvensk, the term used in (Fenno-)Swedish by the group themselves. It is the term that, to me, comes closest to having the same ring to it as the Swedish word, describing Swedes/Swedish that just happens to be from Finland, rather than dually describing the group/language as being simultaneously Swedish and Finnish in identity.
Answered by Janus Bahs Jacquet on June 16, 2021
As you suspected, the general American pattern is to use the nation of ethnic origin as the adjective, and the current nationality as the noun it modifies. Thus, we have Italian American, Nigerian American and so forth. So an American would generally call these people Swedish Finns.
This is probably related to the fact that the American philosophical expectation is that immigrants here will take American nationality as their new primary identity (and the ideal that they should be thereafter be treated as any other Americans).
As Americans we treat the idea of maintaining a primary identity separate from nationality with suspicion. (With that said, a reasonably cosmopolitan American would probably use whatever terminology a particular non-American group preferred.)
Answered by Chris Sunami supports Monica on June 16, 2021
Neither is good. Calling us Swedes could be regarded as an insult, especially if if comes from a Finn. Swedish-Finns refers to Finnish-speaking people who moved to Sweden (not born there). I would call myself a Swedish-speaking Finn or part of a Swedish speaking minority living in Finland. When travelling abroad I usually just call myself a Finn if no further enquiries are made.
(I stumbled upon this post, so I'm not a linguist)
Answered by Not_my_real_name on June 16, 2021
A relative (a domestic Swede) lived in the city Turku (the Finnish name; the Swedish name is Åbo) for several years as a child.
He as well as his parents use the term Swedish-speaking Finns.
Edit: The relative is a naturalized US citizen, so this would be the term used in English, rather than a translation from Swedish.
Answered by socrates on June 16, 2021
First of all: This is a highly sensitive political and sociological issue in Finland, so thread lightly whichever terminology you choose.
Keep in mind that there is also a Finnish minority in Sweden. Swedish Finn or Sweden-Finn would denote a Swedish citizen speaking Finnish, while Finland-Swede would be the term for the group you refer to.
In Swedish there is also a difference in terminology between the Finnish-speaking ethnic group, which would be called Finnar ("Finns"), and the nationality of all Finnish citizens, who would be called Finländare ("Finlandian"). Many Finland-Swedes have no problem being called Finländare but would enjoy being called a Finn about as much as a Scotsman would enjoy being called English.
Answered by Swede on June 16, 2021
This question really has no clear answer to it since there is a a lot more to it than just the Swedish speaking population in Finland. The same problem exist in Sweden, also within the Swedish language.
Different groups of people:
It's a bilingual and nationalistic mess :) So whatever you call any of these groups, there will be misunderstandings. This lingual problem is a daily issue in Sweden and a constant subject of misunderstandings. And you cant do it one way in Finland and a different way in Sweden since daily business and culture are entwined in a way that its more like a unit than two separate contexts.
Since Swedish and Finish culture are entwined with one another and Finland during long periods of history belonging to Sweden and large people moving back and fourth between the two countries for hundreds of years, the two countries and two peoples have very complicated relationships. So, how you refer to these groups can sometimes have quite an emotional value. Sometimes it can be a minefield, when speaking to the "wrong person", but most people in Sweden a Finland have a very natural and relaxed attitude about it. It´s mostly a constant subject of friendly bantering.
Answered by Yellochicken on June 16, 2021
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