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Figuring out the meaning and syntax of the English translation of Charmides

English Language & Usage Asked on April 26, 2021

I was reading The Dialogues of Socrates translated into English and one particular sentence in Charmides sprung out as odd. I can’t tell what it is trying to say, but I also can’t figure out if it is grammatically correct or not.

Very good, I said; and did you not admit, just now, that temperance is noble?

Yes, certainly, he said.

And the temperate are also good?

Yes.

And can that be good which does not make men good?

Certainly not.

I’m guessing that this is correct English but it simply fell out of usage in modern times (e.g. saying "[VERB] + not" instead of "Do + not + [VERB]" for negation). Having said all that, I’m not sure what it is.

One Answer

There's an extraposition in there.

A more normal order would be

Can that which does not make men good be good?

but (especially in writing) this is less comprehensible, because of the difficulty of finding the end of the relative clause which does not make men good.

Also that which ... is somewhat literary: a more ordinary form would be something which.

Does this answer your question?

Correct answer by Colin Fine on April 26, 2021

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