Academia Asked by PsySp on October 21, 2021
I have sent the solutions of some assignments to the students of my class.
One of my students sent me a message that reads as follows (not greeting or anything, no closing, just the following):
The proposed solution of Exercise X is obviously wrong because of reason blah blah. An appropriate solution to your exercise would be such and such.
Now, the student in essence is actually correct: there is a slight error (but it does not alter the essence of the solution). It is just a small wording issue that might raise some confusion (but the calculations are clear).
What troubles me is the attitude, which I found kind of offensive (but I might be wrong).
Is it appropriate a student to behave like that? What would be the right approach to deal with this student?
I answered as politely as I could that the student is right, thanked the student for spotting it, and updated the solution manual. But I feel that the student would create similar issues and make similar comments if some typos are found in subsequent notes.
Note: The actual problem might be that the student might start bad-mouthing me to other students/professors and this might negatively influence other students in believing that I am doing a bad job and consequently this could be reflected on my teaching evaluations (given also that I try to get tenured). Maybe I am paranoid (hope so!), but in relatively small classes where everyone knows each other, the power of bad-mouthing can be great. I want a way to (a) avoid confrontation and (b) make it clear that these issues are completely minor (they are) and not worthy of such aggressive (which they might not be, but I do not want to take chances) messages.
It could be that the student has an Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD) such as Aspergers, in which case it is likely that ther is no arrogance or rudeness intended, just direct factual language. It is worth academics having a reasonable understanding of the communication issues arising from ASD as it is not uncommon in maths, science and engineering. It is important that we don't discriminate against them because we over-interpret their overly-direct communication and read a subtext into it that is not there. The reply sounds fine.
Try not to worry too much about errors in teaching materials. We are all only human and no matter how hard you try, there will always be imperfections. In my experience, students are quite forgiving of mistakes, provided you "own" them (rather than minimising their importance) and are eager to fix them when they are detected.
Answered by Dikran Marsupial on October 21, 2021
It seems people are not liking you for questioning the student's intent....but I definitely understand how you can interpret it the way you are. As a former student who used to correct teachers when errors would arise, I would have to usually write according to the teacher's personality because teachers have this expectation of being cordial towards them and tend to get offended if you don't write as they expect you to write.
Many find that calling them out on an error with a problem is challenging their credentials, even if it is indeed a valid critique. This is where it is a bit unfair to the students. Not everyone has an agreeable personality. Especially when it comes to the science and math domains. We, (people in that aspect) tend to lack personality and why we gravitate towards fields in which our interactions are with non living objects or superficial through e-mails.
I have a friend who writes similar to your student and they do intend to correct for the sake of self gratification that they know more than others under the guise of "wanting things correct". It's actually gotten so bad that no one really wants to hang out with him anymore, but that's a whole different story.
Point being, you should wait for a pattern to arise. If he constantly e-mails you in a way that feels attacking, send him an e-mail or request to talk to him a moment after class if he has 5 minutes to spare. Let him know that you appreciate him helping to correct issues he finds.
I had a teacher that always told students that they are more than happy to have students find errors and let him know. So make sure the student understands, that act in itself is not an issue but that his e-mails give off the vibe of being arrogant or condescending and that you would appreciate it if he used a different tone.
No one should accept being talked to in a arrogant/condescending tone just because it's "their personality". Many people forget that just because they are an instructor doesn't mean they are not human all of a sudden.
So for all the people telling you that you are over-reacting. I do NOT agree with them. People say you can't take emotion from written words, but then please explain why novels can bring people to tears, anger, laugh. Written words do have tones and emotions. Using words like "obviously" in a statement to the teacher has only one purpose... to state that the mistake he found was very obvious to anyone who is "of his level". I think that if the error was that egregious, the teacher probably would have already corrected it before presenting the problem and/or shortly after presenting the problem.
Answered by ggiaquin16 on October 21, 2021
I wouldn't take this as obnoxious or arrogant. If there is an error, you've just found a way to spot which students are able to see it, and capable of saying so. In many disciplines those are skills worth having. Positive features.
Nobody's work is immune from mistakes and pointing them out (even tersely) isn't a hostile act.
As an educator and mentor, why throw cold water on them, and discourage them from engaging with the material, to the extent they sound like they are doing?
You have a range of replies that will work fine, but unless you know more about the students attitude to show a real problem, this is the one I'd choose.
There is a second reason to handle it differently than you are thinking:
Think how it may be felt by a student: suppose the student gets a message that is negative in tone, will they think that they have a teacher who, when a mistake happens, doesn't want to acknowledge it and is annoyed at the person who noticed it. The student may worry about how they are seen, with more good reason (their future life is in your hands!). Perhaps the student will think "maybe the teacher doesn't like me now, and will unfairly mark my work negatively". Now you've created a bad impression and worry for both of you. You've also taught them "if you see a problem or someone doing something wrong, keep quiet".
Answered by Stilez on October 21, 2021
In these kinds of situations, it's important to distinguish between pragmatism and ethics.
If someone acts disrespectfully toward their superiors, this will undermine their academic and career potential. Ergo, it unpragmatic; it doesn't work. But it's not at all clear that being disrespectful towards one's superiors is morally wrong. And some philosophies (I use this term as loosely synonymous with "worldview") hold that hierarchy is unethical despite its current ubiquity. Further to this, it's easy to relate to someone whom holds that being disrespectful towards one's superiors is morally obligatory, whether or not we agree with this position. I think it's good to keep that in mind.
Is it appropriate a student to behave like that?
The word "appropriate" is ambiguous. It sometimes means "ethical." Other times, it means "consistent with the norms of a particular culture, in a particular time or place." In my opinion, these aren't the same thing.
What would be the right approach to deal with this student?
Treat them like they're an intelligent, rational being, potentially with a strong distaste for hierarchy, but good inside nonetheless.
For example:
Thanks for point this out.
However, I found your email a little too pointed for comfort, and the tone, though ambiguous, could be construed as disrespectful.
I think an important ethical principle is consistency. If, for example, you wish to reserve the right to write with whatever tone you like, fine, but if so, you must forfeit, in all circumstances, the right to object to other people's tone as fair consequence.
Assuming you don't wish to forfeit this right, I'd like to ask you intentionally go out of your way to soften your tone from here onwards. As a general rule, I think that going out of our way to speak and write with an intentionally respectful tone goes a long way towards making this world a nicer place for everyone.
Also, I respectfully disagree with the position that the given solution was "obviously wrong." You're correct that the phrasing was a bit weak, but [whatever you want to write here.]
In any event, I appreciate that you reported this and I'm strongly in favor of the willingness to report such things in future. A lot of people wouldn't have the courage to bring something like this up, which is a shame, because it means problems take longer to fix.
Good luck with the rest of the assignment.
Answered by goblin GONE on October 21, 2021
I try to tackle issues of this sort by reminding me of the following points:
As a result of this, I come to realise that most probably there is neither insult nor injury in what I read. Also, when the tables are turned, I try to use these guidelines to allay the feelings that my writing has awakened, provided the counterpart has bothered about sharing them. In that situation, I review my word choice and put forward corrections or confirmations based on what I get to understand from the feedback.
A useful first-aid resource to frame these communication questions are the Grice's maxims:
The assumption of this is that there is willingness to communicate. Not answering is also an option. But interpreting absence of signals is much more uncertain, and can even be taxing depending on the expected value of an answer. Intriguingly, this value is often revealed by the tone of voice we read the incoming messages with.
Answered by XavierStuvw on October 21, 2021
We have a policy - never assume an attitude in email. Some people are very direct people and while they don't mean to sound arrogant - that certainly could be the case in an email.
Answered by DB Diva on October 21, 2021
After reading the student's email several times, I think the student is neither being arrogant nor aggressive (as you say), but concise: in a "WhatsApp" like style. They go directly to the fact and its correction.
It is true that some words could be selected in a more polite way ("obviously erroneous"), but in this context and after the first answer has been sent, it is not the moment to remark on this (I always suggest humor for these kinds of issues: Thanks for pointing out this issue, it is more difficult to catch these editorial or minor errors than mosquitoes in the summer even if they are "obvious" as you say ...).
I must however remark a contradiction in your text "The actual problem might be that the student might start ...". I'm sorry, but if it is a "might start" it is not an "actual problem" but a "possible hypothetical problem". A teacher must always act taking into account facts not feelings nor opinions.
Answered by pasaba por aqui on October 21, 2021
You state in a comment that this is "Theoretical Computer Science". The student makes a point of handing in a complete correction and suggestion.
This is not "English Studies" or a "Communication Major" where basic interpersonal skills are part of the skill set for admittance as well as graduation.
So putting in a lot of guesswork I consider it likely that you are dealing with someone without useful grasp of social skills, for example one with traits of Asperger's syndrome. It is quite likely that the mistake will lessen his opinion of you disproportionally. However, that does not put you in a worse light/position than everybody else. I would not worry about that.
I don't think that you can do much better, for both yourself as well as the student, but to respond graciously which apparently you did. It's quite likely that this student will keep being troublesome while also being at the top of the class: being friends with numbers and computers and being friends with humans are different skill sets and there are people bad at managing one to the detriment of the other.
Don't go out of your way to either accommodate or discipline that student: neither is likely to be effective anyway and may backfire. Even while I might be misdiagnosing the problem, doing less rather than more is usually the safer course leaving you more options later on.
Answered by user80314 on October 21, 2021
Having the confidence to challenge your professor when they've made a mistake shouldn't be under-estimated. Many people will be scared that they'll just look stupid. Likewise, standing up infront of 500 students and saying you made a mistake also takes confidence.
I would take a leaf from their book and stand up to the class and highlight the mistake. They won't feel angry that you did it; and if anything will be relieved that you highlighted the issue, as they were getting stressed that they might not be understanding the topic.
After that - who cares if a student is arrogant or not? Why does that matter to you? Your job is to teach them the subject not manners; so your reply should revolve around that. If they really are arrogant and they step on someone's foot, later they'll learn another way that it's bad.
Answered by UKMonkey on October 21, 2021
I do not see the student's email as arrogant. I can see how someone could assume arrogance in it or think that there could have been an arrogant mindset, but the email itself is not blatantly arrogant.
If you make a mistake, and a student catches it for you, that benefits you, that student, the rest of the class, and possibly future instances of the class if you re-use the material. You should say thank you.
However, because of the low amount of diplomacy and tact in the student's email, I would not try to seem overly thankful. After stating "Though the process was correct, there was indeed a mistake in my wording." you can simply say "Thanks." or "Good catch, thanks." or "Thanks for pointing that out." or similar.
As for the use of "obviously," which seems to be the balancing point for most people here, please realize that the word usage could go either way: polite or rude. It could easily be that the student thought "I don't want to offend my teacher, so I will toss in the word 'obviously' to indicate that it is a minor mistake on their part that they would agree with me on, and not that I am questioning their ability." Or, obviously, it can be read as "I doubt this teacher even cares about us or this work since he made such a trivial mistake that is obviously wrong." It can be read as either very polite or very rude; you just cannot know.
About your concern of this student spreading bad news about you; there is nothing you can do about that. I recall both from my days as a student and my teaching days that this was bound to happen no matter what you do. If you are truly a good teacher, then usually there will be less of it, but you cannot avoid it entirely. I saw some awesome teachers, much better than I was, who still received some complaints and persuaded students to avoid their classes. It is sad that we have to deal with this unfortunate truth, but there is little you can do about it other than minimizing it by doing a good job.
Answered by Aaron on October 21, 2021
The message was written in a minimalist style, and that is okay.
(Perhaps the obviously could have been omitted, but even that is not a huge deal.)
Now, that said, in the modern world of email, it is all too easy to get into unproductive, anxious wondering cycles of doubt about all kinds of email messages that one receives, and also about one's own email messages (is this too blunt, is this too flowery, etc., etc., editing and un-editing and starting fresh, until 2 am). So, when in doubt, by all means, do ask colleagues, friends, Academia StackExchange (probably the Chat would be the best place for this), so you don't waste your time spinning your wheels about an email.
(I support the suggestion already given, that if it is not an online class, get to know your students better in the face-to-face arena, if possible.)
I realized, after reading Patricia's helpful comment, that I forgot to say:
Promptly email a corrected solution to your class list, giving a brief credit to the student who brought the mistake to your attention. That might be a good opportunity to let your students know (as I hope you have done previously) that their corrections are much appreciated and you are always glad to receive comments and feedback.
Answered by aparente001 on October 21, 2021
There are several things which are not mentioned in the email but which can be assumed when processing such a message:
With that in mind, you basically have two options:
Another obvious option, which I would not recommend, is to directly chastise them for not conforming to expectations. They will probably never report issues like this again.
Also: Don't worry. This wasn't even a complaint, just a correction. This sort of thing is only a problem if it keeps happening to many of your assignments, and coming from many students.
Finally, to anyone assuming that the student is either rude or bragging:
Answered by l0b0 on October 21, 2021
How to deal with this?
Dear [student],
Thank you for pointing this out.
[1 or 2 more sentences of explanation]
Sincerely, [your name].
What troubles me is the attitude, which I found it kind of offensive (but I might be wrong).
Maybe the email is offensive, or maybe the student just wrote an email from their phone. Maybe they are actively trying to be a jerk, or maybe they just don't know how to behave properly. Maybe they are just trying to be a troll. In all those cases, I have found the best way is just to not engage and write a neutral response that does not comment on the perceived rudeness.
What I certainly would not recommend is "inviting" them into your office for some sort of explanation, just for writing a factually correct but unfriendly email. You are, again, at worst creating a conflict where there is none, and at best spending significant energy trying to educate a fellow adult on basics of etiquette.
But I feel that the student would create same issues in case some typo is found in the subsequent notes and make similar comments.
So what? If they have a real concern, address them. If they make things up to feel important, either ignore the email or tell them that you do not see the issue.
Answered by xLeitix on October 21, 2021
An arrogant sounding email does not mean that the person is arrogant. It is well-known that language and even the assumed personality in online communication differ from the real ones, sometimes very significantly (see e.g. internet troll and internet hero). There may be a bunch of other reasons why a person uses an offensive language without realising it, e.g. their first language may not be English. There is also a cultural dimension to it.
The bottom line suggestion is: don't form your opinion by reading email only. Ask student in for an office hour and explain the solution to them. You can offer advice about the communication style used in academia and also get to know the student better by seeing her/him in person.
Answered by Dmitry Savostyanov on October 21, 2021
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